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I inherited this sword from my uncle. It is by S & K (Schnitzler & Kirschbaum) with the inspector stamp of 'F.C' although the 'F' is not clear to me. Is it a copy?
Blade is 89cm and 107cm with handle, 3cm wide and 1cm thick closest to handle.
If you know anything about this sword(type of sword), I would very much like to hear it.
Please let me know if you need any more information.
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The problem with this identification is the number of possibilities. Knowing the manufacturer leads us to several options. They absolutely did sell to the US, and many similar weapons can be found through some googling. One site AntiqueGuns.com, has what appears to be a matching weapon, listed as an heavy cavalry saber of Civil War era. The entry also has a lot of good background info on the company S&K, and a possible reference source to look at in the book CIVIL WAR CAVALRY & ARTILLERY SABERS by John J. Thillmann.
Unless you offer a reason why you think its American, I will also offer an alternative to this being a US civil war weapon. The model you have seems to be a very good match to one for sale at this site, Bygone Blades. This weapon is listed as an Italian 1860 Heavy Cavalry Sabre by Schnitzler & Kirschbaum. The images there show the exactly matching pommel, grip including the small rectangular cutout visible on the hand guard in you image, spear type point, and list the length at 89cm, matching your measurements exactly.
Whether or not this weapon was made for the American market or for the Italians, (or some others I haven't found yet) I think we can be confident in the 1860 Heavy Cavalry Sabre identification.
As to authenticity, I absolutely concur with the other answer. That should be left to a hands-on inspection by an appropriate expert.
Some quick google foo:
- A claimed K and S cavalry sword being sold on EBay. Looks similar in style to the OP's particular in the handle.
- Example of a verified sold K & S sword similar time period baring much of the same appearance.
- A description of the Unions purchase order of K&S swords for the civil war. Link also contains a blueprint of swords related to ranks. The NCOs shape on this blueprint is similar to the OPs.
Based on all that is provided I venture to guess what you have is a Union NCO sword. This particular maker in keeping with convention of the times created different styles of blades which were indicative of various specialties and rank. The level of ornamentation of the blade and scabbard also reinforces my conclusion of it being an NCO sword.
As with most swords the most revealing information lies in the handle and makers mark, which yours ~appear to look akin to. I also like the weather condition of your guard as that is ~good sign towards its authenticity.
However, I nor can anyone online really judge the sword to be authentic. I suggest taking it to an auction house or authentication service if you wish to have it verified.
Civil war swords value
One of the best militaria collectibles from the American Civil War period is the sword. Although not the primary weapon, the military swords and sabers were symbols of rank and kept as trophies after the war.
These war trophies were bequeathed to generation some end up in the attic, others lost in time, and some kept within the family as pride and priced keepsakes.
If you&rsquore in possession or just inherited a Civil War sword, you might be looking at a treasure. The question is how you can check if the sword or saber you have is worth something or not.
From a professional appraiser&rsquos point-of-view, the process of determining the value of an American Civil War sword focuses on the inspection of its authenticity. Once verified, proceeding with quality assessment and pricing is easier. There are also other factors to consider such as the sword&rsquos condition, its rarity and provenance.
The appraisal is very complicated which is why it&rsquos always best to have your sword appraised by a Civil War sword expert. But you have to be ready to pay the appraisal cost which can run between USD 20 to 100.
If your antique Civil War sword is an heirloom and you can trace it to its bearer, have no fear in sending to a professional appraiser as the sword will most likely be valued no less than USD 1000. But if you&rsquore doubtful of its authenticity, it would be wise to pre-assess the sword&rsquos value and avoid unnecessary cost.
The pre-assessment is just a quick and simple check of the sword&rsquos authenticity, condition, type and history. Below are four guide questions to self-appraising Union & Confederacy war-time swords.
Is it an authentic American Civil War sword?
Judging the authenticity of your US Civil War sword should be the very first step to estimating its potential worth. This would have been easier if not for the rampant reproductions and fakes.
With sophisticated counterfeiting and near-perfect reproductions being constantly traded, authenticating your sword will be very hard and should be left to experts.
So what can you do to check its authenticity? You can verify the history of the sword. Examine the sword for any markings or etchings. Some US Civil War swords are stamped with the name of its bearer.
There are free Civil War databases online where you can countercheck if the soldier and other details stamped on the swords do exist.
If the sword has been handed down to you through generation, it&rsquos most likely an authentic Civil War sword. But if you bought it for less than USD 100, it&rsquos more likely a fake.
What is the overall condition of your US Civil War sword?
The condition of Civil War swords refers to its overall state, particularly that of the blade.
Most American Civil War collectors and dealers look for battle-ready swords, those that have been used in real combat. These types often have acceptable level of damages.
Any nicks and slight imperfections on the sword&rsquos parts and blade are considered normal and shouldn&rsquot have any profound effects on its selling price but visible chips and cracks on the blade might lower its value. Repairs, un-complementary polishing or tampering will also decrease its value.
A complete set (blade, scabbard, pommel, guard and grip) is more valuable than swords with missing parts.
Is it a Union or Confederate Civil War sword?
Due to their rarity, swords from the Confederate States are generally more expensive than those used by the Union States.
While it may be hard to determine the differences between swords used by the U.S. from the Confederacy, some markings are exclusive to one side. Some of the common marks on Confederate swords are &ldquoCS&rdquo and &ldquoCSA&rdquo on the hand-guard. &ldquoPDL&rdquo and &ldquoS&K&rdquo are found in Union Army swords.
A common Confederate Army sword in good condition will be priced around USD 650 while its Union States Army equivalent will fetch USD 500.
Who was the original bearer of your Civil War sword?
Provenance, or the history behind the sword, is valued by collectors. If you can link the sword to its owner, the price of the sword will increase by at least 25%. If you can present a photo or any documentation that links the sword to its supposed owner, then its price may double or triple.
Presentation swords often have inscriptions in them detailing the heroic deeds of the officer who received it. These types of swords are also extremely valuable Civil War collectibles.
The demand for US Civil War swords has always been high even with the slump in the economy. So if you have a genuine Civil War artillery, cavalry or navy sword or saber, you&rsquore sure to find a willing buyer for it.
Keep in mind that the appraised price, self- or professionally-appraised, is just an opinion of the Civil War sword&rsquos worth. The real price of sword is the amount that the buyer is willing to pay for.
2 thoughts on &ldquo Confederate and Union Artillery Swords &rdquo
I have come across an artillery short sword that has the saber-type handle with the one-piece curved guard. The handle is cast in one piece from iron, and crudely made. The blade is just an 1855 bayonet that is well-fitted into the handle. The scabbard is steel. with a knob for the drag, and is stamped ”. The U-shaped bar that went through the frog is missing, but was fastened on with three brass rivets.
I have been told by three professional collectors that this is:
1. Revolutionary War English
2. Post-Civil War French
3. Pre-Civil War German
I do think that the Enfield-style sword blade classifies it as imported, probably English, like the enfield rifle itself. Other than that, I’m stumped. I can send a picture by snail mail if it would help, but I don’t have a scanner. I would really appreciate your input as a specialist in this area.
Hi! I was wondering if you could tell me anything that could help verify a Union artillery sword. I received photos but I’m not entirely sure and this would be my first “collection” purchase. Thanks so much!
Civil War Swords CSA - US
The Use of Swords in the Civil War
Many weapons were used in the War Between the States ranging from pistols, rifles and even grenades. Although gunpowder was, by this time the main weapon of choice in war, swords still played an important part, especially by the Union Army. There were exceptions however, in the Confederate Army and in certain battles.
Cavalry was important on both sides but the main weapon used on horseback was rifles. In close quarters, pistols would be used and when the gunpowder ran out, then knives and swords became the final solution for the struggling soldier. This reliance on more modern weapons was the undoing of many a battle since most soldiers were not trained but simply farmers, miners and merchants who were fighting for their homes, their way of life and their ideals. Knives and swords were easier to use by many of these ill trained troops and every soldier carried one or the other.
There were different types of mounted soldiers on both sides. The four most organized troops were, in order of importance, Cavalry, Mounted Infantry, Dragoons and Irregular Forces.
The Southern Cavalry was considered superior to the Northern version as most Southerners who qualified for it were better horsemen. The South was a more agrarian society and horsemanship was a learned early skill on most plantations and even on the smaller farms. People rode to hunt and towns were more scattered with other forms of transportation, like trains usually reserved for the larger cities. Northern troops came more from industrial areas or cities where walking was the more common mode of transportation and horses, although present, were not needed by everyone.
Cavalry were the best trained and required a horse, a rifle and a sword. Northern Cavalry after the first few months were issued their horses but Southerners were required to provide their own if the horse was killed, they had sixty days to return home and acquire another or face going into the footed infantry, considered a demotion. These systems had its drawbacks but the lack of individually owned horses created the need in the North and the South lacked the funds to provide horses for its mounted soldiers. It also accounted for the fact that the Cavalry troops did not make up a very large group on either side.
Another little known fact is that most swords in the years building up to the war, were of European import as the colonies had sword production but not in mass quantities as some of the European centers had. What did make civil war swords so special were their markings. On the Union side, the federal government would award swords for exceptional military service. These swords would have etchings on the blades that told the rank and battle for the award and these are highly prized among collectors. The Confederate army had similar etchings on their swords that were usually confined to their superior officers.
Cavalry used swords more like a bludgeon than a sword against another horseman to unhorse him, with only sharpening a small part of the blade at the tip to use with a stabbing motion rather than thrusting. Northerners used swords more frequently while Southerners used pistols, as they considered swords outmoded. Yet there were some battles that the sword was extremely important such as the Third Day of the Battle of Gettysburg, when the guns were practically useless with ammunition running low on both sides.
Cavalry acted as the intelligence units as well for both sides and they specialized in hit and run expeditions behind enemy lines where a well-aimed sword could easily break through defenses and the horseman escape, a tactic in which the Confederates excelled. Cavalry accounted for just a small percentage of actual troops used and mostly utlized by the North in the first half of the war.
Mounted Infantry accounted for the bulk of the troops on both sides and would start on horses and then would go on foot. Dragoons were troops trained in both styles of fighting, cavalry and on foot as well. Mounted Infantry relied mostly on rifles. Dragoons were more focused on light cavalry and utilized their swords but were also often found on foot. By the second half of the war, most Cavalry units fought as Mounted Infantry, using their tactics and weapons on foot. Irregular forces, also called Guerrillas and Partisan Rangers, were mounted forces that rarely used traditional tactics, were found more in Confederate troops,, using any weapon they could find and were the troops most famous for raids and harassment of lines, gathering information for the troops in reserve.
Swords utilized were European in nature, ranging from the 1830’s to the last being produced around 1860 and ranged from the light Sabre swords from the 1860 model in Cavalry to the heavier and older model, best known as the Wrist-Breaker from the 1840 Heavy Dragoon model. Different swords bore the markings of their owner’s rank and battle which distinguished him and were beautifully etched with various patterns, making them unique and valuable to the collector of today.
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Artillery Short Sword - SCARCE example here, the 18" blade shows age & use. Maker marked with S & K, dated 184?, hard to decipher date. Guard is broken, possible war time. I have never seen this example before. S & K is the maker Schnitzler and Kirschbaum of Solingen, Germany which manufactured many edged weapons used in the Civil War. - Price is $ 550.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-1-1645
Saber Straps - Saber Straps stamped with maker, Rock Island Arsenal and inspected JH. Standard size, short strap 9 1/2" long with long strap at 23", thats folded closed as you see it here. Nice strap showing honest age. - Price is $ 150.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-2-2391
M-1906 Cavalry Sword - More scarce than the civil war cavalry swords. The 35" blade excellent with a couple very fine nicks that can be felt with your finger. Maker stamped US J.C. and dated A.S. Co. 1906. All iron guard with original leather & wire, grip remains excellent, leather washer intact. Iron guard painted black as seen on many, most long gone and worn thin. Scabbard remains excellent, dent free and some light rust. Drag stamped with numbers 122 & 5 over the middle 2, reverse stamped 71 and inspected with JC. Nice sword here, all original showing honest age, getting scarce to find this model. - Price is $ 650.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-3-2847
Model 1860 Cavalry Sword - Good example here, as they say fresh from the attic and untouched - The 35" blade is maker marked & dated with C. Roby W. Chelmsford Mass & US 1865 A.G.M, blade shows light rust with no nicks. Brass guard with a dark patina, leather shows honest wear & use, only 3 strains of wire remain, leather washer still intact. Scabbard with a coating of rust, no denting, shows use overall. Nice sword here, would clean up if you got the time, I think better as you see it. - Price is $ 750.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-4-1302
Model 1840 Artillery Short Sword - Looks to be a Ames maker, unmarked with maker or inspection stamps. Could be one made for the confederate army ? Sword is 25" overall long with a 19" double edge blade. Blade has several very fine nicks. I have seen these before where the maker was worn thin & hard to see, but they were always inspected on the guard, not this one. - Price is $ 650.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-5-3015
Model 1860 Cavalry Sword - The 35" blade maker marked Mansfield & Lamb Forestdale RI & dated, US CEW 1865. Blade shows age with 2 very fine nicks, leather washer intact. Leather grip & wire remain very good showing honest use, pommel inspected with CEW. Brass guard to blade just a tad loose, nothing bad. Scabbard shows age & use with light rust, 3 door dents. - Price is $ 750.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-6-2808
Model 1860 Cavalry Sword - Maker marked Emerson & Silver Trenton NJ, dated US CEW 1864. The 35" blade is nick free with light rust spotting, would clean off easy, leather washer missing. Leather grip good with brass wire long gone. Scabbard is dent free with light rust overall. - Price is $ 650.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-7-2638
Model 1860 Cavalry Sword - The 35" blade is dated US JH 1862, no signs of a maker stamping. Blade remains very dark from storage, 2 very fine nicks can be felt with your finger nail. Leather grip & wire show age & use, some wood starting to show, pommel inspected with the letter H. Scabbard shows age, small dent near drag. - Price is $ 800.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-8-2912
Model 1850 Sword Fighting Knife - Possible confederate made side knife from sword, overall 18" long with a 13" blade. Blade has a very dark patina, remains sharp, I see no maker markings. Wood grip with cracks, no leather or wire remains. Brass guard is a tad loose to blade. Overall a nice civil war period relic. - Price is $ SOLD plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-9-3018
M-1906 Cavalry Sword - More scarce than the civil war swords, fresh from the attic and never messed with. The 35" blade shows age, nick free, light rust, small amount looks to have been sharpen some. Stamped US JHC and dated AS Co 1906. All iron guard with original leather & wire, blade leather washer intact all show age & use. Scabbard with a couple small dents and is rusty from storage, drag stamped with numbers, hard to decipher. I would think this sword & scabbard would clean up, we like them as they are. - Price is $ 500.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-10-1318
French Infantry Short Sword - Sword remains in very good condition with only a few very tiny small flea bites to the 19" double edge blade, 25" long overall, light rust & some minor pitting near handle, maker & inspection stampings are weak. Nice short sword overall & ready for display. - Price is $ 300.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-11-681
SCARCE Model 1840 Artillery Sword - Sword marked & stamped on the spine FW 48, Frederick Wilhelm, contract of 1847, issued 1848. Frederick Wilhelm, Philedelphia, Pa imported & mounted blades from S&K of Solingen Germany from 1816 to 1848. This is the 2nd contract, never had a leather blade washer, scabbard with a raw throat and no spring inside. Used & saw service in the Mexican War and Civil War. Original leather grip & brass wire, both remain in excellent condition showing honest age & light use. Blade is 32" long and remains excellent with no nicking. Scabbard overall very good, no denting, painted parade black, drag stamped and marked, S & K for SCHNITZLER & KIRSCHBAUM, Solingen. This is a scarce sword in this condition, you will be hard pressed to find another. - Price is $ SOLD plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-12-2495
French Artillery Short Sword - The 18 1/2" blade shows age & use, has been cleaned over the years. Maker of Klingenthal hard to decipher, the markings are there, several hallmarks stamped in guard. Tough to beat this price as seen listed here. - Price is $ 450.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-13-1639
M-1840 Muscians Sword - The 28" blade is maker marked Made by Ames MFG Co Chicopee Mass & dated US GSL 1864. Sword is fresh from a basement, blade is rusty & pitted, no nicking. This would clean up some if you have the time, we dont do that here. Nice sword for the money. - Price is $ SOLD plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-14-2481
French Infantry Short Sword - Maker marked Klingenthal, 25" long overall with a 19" double edge blade, blade shows light rust & age, no extreme pitting, nice short sword here. - Price is $ 300.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-15-699
Model 1860 Cavalry Sword - Maker Marked Emerson & Silver Trenton, NJ. dated with US/DFM/1864, pommel cap inspected as well, all markings a tad weak and could use a little cleaning there. Leather grip & wire show honest age & wear, missing a small section of wire near pommel. Scabbard shows age as well with four dents & a tad bent from being rode on horse back. Overall a nice civil war sword, to bad they dont talk, this one was there. - Price is $ 850.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-16-289
Zouave Saber Bayonet Fighting Knife - Saber bayonet made into a knife, overall 10 1/4" long with a 6" blade. Looks to be an early battlefield pick-up, blade a tad loose & rusty. Seldom see these saber bayonets made into knifes. - Price is $ 300.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-17-2045
Model 1850 Officers Sword - Maker marked & stamped Esinhauer F. Horster Solingen, on the reverse has a PROVED disk. Sword is 38" overall with a nick free 32" blade, blade dark showing storage age. Original sharkskin grip & wire remain very good with small nip on grip. Nice sword with scarce maker, no scabbard. - Price is $ 395.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-18-3029
Model 1860 Cavalry Sword - The 35" blade is dated US JM 1864 & maker marked Emerson & Silver Trenton NJ, pommel inspected with JM. Original leather & wire grip show honest age & use, overall good condition. Scabbard with one very small dent showing honest age, some loss to nickle finish, inspected with #2 & LW. - Price is $ SOLD plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-19-2113
Model 1860 Cavalry Sword - Maker marked & dated with US JCW 1864 & Mansfield & Lamb Forestdale RI. The 35" blade remains very good with a couple very fine nicks. Leather grip & wire show honest age & light wear, pommel inspected with CEW & W, leather washer intact. Scabbard good condition overall, dent free, drag inspected with JCW. Nice sword here. - Price is $ SOLD plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-20-2765
Model 1860 Officers Staff & Field Sword - Circa 1870 to 1890, the 32" blade has no maker marks or date. Flip down guard not working, button stuck, excellent grip & wire. Scabbard with light rust & pitting, I think from many years of storage in this cloth sword bag. - Price is $ 250.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-21-2776
Model 1860 Cavalry Sword - The 35" blade maker marked with C. Roby W. Chelmsford Mass and dated US/1864/AGM. Original leather grip & wire good overall showing honest age and wear, handle has a crack in wood. Blade with 1 small nick and roughness near tip, tip has a ding. Pommel inspected with the letter M, leather washer intact. Scabbard good condition, shows age with light pitting, most to the drag, one small shallow dent. - Price is $ 800.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-22-2723
Model 1860 Staff Officers Sword - The 30" diamond shaped blade is stamped with the Knights Head, blade overall excellent. Knights Head is maker WR Kirschbaum, Solingen, imported many times by WH Horstman. Blade ingraved with US & Eagle, felt washer missing. Sharkskin grip showing honest age and use, brass wire missing. Push button folding guard button is missing, broke, non-working. Scabbard remains good overall, brass hanger mounts, slight bend in the middle, nothing extreme. - Price is $ 350.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-23-2689
European Import Relic - Tired & Worn & Relic Condition, maker marked A.E. Holler, Solingen, very weak markings. Cast Iron Hilt, entire grip is long gone, sword blade is 36" showing age with rust & pitting, scabbrad is rusty with a small hole near toe, both look to have been painted black many years ago, both show areas of light cleaning, this could be improved. Not much information found on the maker, BEZDEK Book on American Swords, claims imported for the Civil War, this could be a sleeper & possible confederate used. I regret there is no imformation to give as to where this way recovered. - Price is $ 450.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-24-468
Model 1860 Cavalry Sword - Maker marked & dated, Emerson & Silver Trenton, N.J. & US C.E.W. 1865, 35" blade shows age & use with a couple fine nicks, good leather grip & wire, only showing honest age & use, missing approximate 1 inch wire, hard to notice & appears fixed & tucked in leather grip, leather washer intact. Brass guard with a nice dark patina, pommel is inspected with J.M. Scabbard with small dents & light rust, drag is inspected with J.M. just the same as the pommel cap. - Price is $ 800.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-25-654
Model 1860 Cavalry Sword - Maker marked Mansfield & Lamb Forestdale RI & dated US JM 1864. The 35" blade remains excellent with one small nick, leather washer intact, blade looks to have been coated with shellac ?, easy remove if desired. Original wire & leather grip shows honest age with light wear & use. Scabbard good condition overall with a couple small dents and a blade nick, drag inspected with DFM. Overall a nice sword here. - Price is $ 850.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-26-1989
Saber Bayonet Fighting Knife - Knife made from a saber bayonet, overall 11" long with a 6 1/2" blade. Good condition showing honest age & use, brass handle with a nice dark patina. Good heavy strong knife here, you will like this one. - Price is $ 300.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-27-2279
Scarce Model 1860 Cavalry Sword - Maker Marked Prov Tool Co and dated US RPB 1862, sic. The 34 1/2" blade remains good overall with a couple very fine nicks. Brass guard branch is bent down, leather washer intact. Original leather grip & wire showing honest age & wear, some loss to leather. Pommel cap inspected RPB. Scabbard shows age with couple small dents near drag, overall good. Scarce maker, Providence Tool Co of Rhode Island. - Price is $ 800.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-28-2826
Model 1860 Cavalry Sword - The 35" blade shows no signs of a maker or date stamping. Blade remains excellent with no nicks, small ding to tip, leather washer intact. Excellent leather grip & wire showing honest age, pommel with inspection H 74. Scabbard shows age & use, 3 dents, drag inspected with MGP 9, never seen the MGP inspection before. Nice sword, could this have been made for the confederate army ? - Price is $ 850.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-29-2762
Model 1860 Cavalry Sword - Maker marked C. Roby W. Chelmsford, Mass. & dated with US 1865 AGM, the 35" blade has light spotting, shows age with 2 very fine nicks, previous owner added a heavy coat of oil or grease, can be easily removed. Brass guard good overall with original leather grip & brass wire, very dark from storage, leather washer intact, pommel cap stamped with the letter "M". Scabbard dent free, shows age & remains very dark from attic storage. - Price is $ 750.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-30-859
Help to identify this sword (Confederate)? - History
Of all the Confederate swords and sabers, this was the one used most. Wielded by the troops under the command of J.E.B. Stuart, Wade Hampton and Nathan Bedford Forrest, this sword dispatched hordes of Yankee soldiers. This is a very distinctive saber with a brass guard similar to that of an 1860 Light Cavalry Saber (which itself was a copy of an earlier French saber).
This authentic, hand made replica has a flexible, ornate blade and leather grip wrapped with brass wire. The blade has the classic Confederate "unstopped" fuller. The scabbard has brass furniture, ring mounts and drag. You'll find it in Albaugh's Confederate Edged Weapons pg. 137. Has brown handle. Made by Windlass Steelcrafts. Can be sharpened for an additional fee.
- Overall: 40"
- Blade: 34" long, 1-1/8" wide, 3/16" thick
- Wt: 2 lbs/4 oz
- Scabbard Wt: 1 lb/12 oz
Sword can be personalized with up to 2 lines from grip to tip in the middle of the blade with up to 25 characters per line
Scabbard can be personalized up to 2 lines from grip to tip between rings with up to 30 characters per line
Can someone help me identify this saber? (read comment)
This saber is the 1860 light cavalry saber made by W.J. McElroy & Co in Macon, Georgia. Thing is it's scaled down quite a bit, the blade being only 22 3/4 inches in length. The grip is also tiny as if made for a child.
This is where I got lost on. No matter where I searched I could not find anything similar.
Me with a tiny grasp of civil war history
“Uhh, I think it’s a cavalry saber”
The chad 3VGNY “this saber is the 1860 light cavalry saber made by W.J McElroy and Co Macon, Georgia”
I need to get better at identifying civil war weapons, I couldn’t even tell you which rifle would be which.
It’s a cheap Indian copy, made for tourists.
How were you able to determine that? What were the give aways?
well I'm not to knowing on a lot of weapons from the Civil War era. but to me Iɽ say that it was made for child soldiers. now yes there was child soldiers and a good number of them were in different parts of the confed. Military's. There was some in Navy, Infantry, Artillery ect.
Now this saber may have been used by a child soldier in the Calvary. But I can be wrong but thats my two cents.
The U.S. Model 1832 foot artillery short-sword has a 6-inch (15 cm) solid brass hilt, a 4-inch (10 cm) crossguard, and a blade usually 19 inches (48 cm) in length. This model was the first sword contracted by the U.S. with the Ames Manufacturing Company of Springfield (later Chicopee), Massachusetts, with production starting in 1832. In later years, it was also imported and supplied by W.H. Horstmann & Sons of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. As a personal side arm, it was intended for use by the regular or foot artillery regiments of the United States Army and remained in service until 1872 for use of foot artillerymen. It was the issue sword for sergeants and musicians of infantry regiments from 1832 until 1840. As most artillery regiments were trained and equipped as infantry prior to 1861 a single weapon for both types of troops made sense. It replaced the earlier Starr pattern sword used throughout the 1820s. While the design was impractical for actual combat, it is believed that artillerymen put this weapon to other uses, such as clearing brush or creating trails. It was an effective tool for cutting paths through the Florida swamps during the Second Seminole War, which occurred during the time it was issued to infantry sergeants, drummers and fifers. This is somewhat corroborated by the French nickname for their version of the sword, coupe choux (cabbage cutter). The last Ames contract for this sword was completed in 1862, although as a stock item it continued to be listed in company catalogs for decades afterwards.
The design was based on the French foot artillery short sword of 1816, which with minor changes was basically repeated in 1831. The French model was based on the Roman gladius, the standard sword of the Roman legionaries.
Seeking identification of sashes
The two items in the color images are consistent with elements of U.S. Army uniforms of the mid to late nineteenth century. The red sash is a fairly common uniform item worn by both officers and senior enlisted personnel. The sashes could be worn two different ways: around the waist, usually under a sword belt and across one shoulder. The sash around the waist is normally a dress uniform item, while the sash across the shoulder may indicate an officer in a duty status such as officer of the day.
The second color item is normally called a lanyard, and it was a feature of U.S. Army uniforms beginning in the 1870’s, when the Army changed its dress uniform regulations to adopt a more Prussian appearance. These lanyards normally appear in the color of the branch of the wearer&mdashlight blue for infantry, red for artillery, yellow for cavalry, etc. Your example appears to be a faded gold bullion color, which may indicate an officer’s uniform item. These types of lanyards apparently survived in the Army’s uniform regulations until the first decade of the twentieth century.
The items worn in the b/w photo appear to be non-military in origin, perhaps award in recognition of military service or for a specific event.
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Model 1860 Cavalry Sword - The 35" blade is maker marked with Emerson & Silver Trenton NJ, dated US ADK 1865, just a little roughness the blade edge. Leather grip & wire all original, shows age & use with some loss of leather, blade leather washer intact. Scabbard shows age from storage, no dents, a little rusty. Good honest sword here. - The Price is $ 800.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-31-1283
Model 1860 Cavalry Sword - Maker marked & dated US/JM/1865 - Emerson & Silver Trenton, NJ, maker mark is weak, pommel cap inspected as well with JM/M. The 35" blade is nick free with some black age spotting, no active rust, just shows age, looks good, brass guard with a nice dark patina to include the original leather washer, leather grip & brass wire both complete, shows honest age & wear. Scabbard shows age with two minor dents, plated at one time with most missing, sword & scabbard have a nice look and will display very nice. - Price is $ 850.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-32-274
Model 1860 Cavalry Sword - The 35" blade is maker marked Mansfield & Lamb Forestdale RI and dated US CEW 1865. Blade remains very good with 1 very fine nick, leather washer intact. Original leather grip & wire show wear & honest age, front guard bent down, pommel inspected with CEW. Scabbard remains dark from storage, dent free, drag inspected with CEW, reverse stamped with the number 69. - Price is $ 800.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-33-2616
Model 1860 Cavalry Sword - The sword blade is a unmarked 35" nick free example, shows only a couple dark spots from age and storage. Leather grip very good condition with wire long gone, easy fix if so desired, retains the original leather washer. Brass guard is nice showing a dark patina from age, pommel cap is inspected twice with "C.E.W.", Charles E. Wilson inspected from 1862 to 1864. The original scabbard over-all excellent with a dime size dent. - Price is $ 750.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-34-192
Model 1850 Officers Sword - The 31" sword blade with scroll design to include US & Eagle. No maker marks, spine marked Iron Proof. Blade missing washer, shows age with light spotting and a couple very small bumps that can be felt with your finger. Original leather grip & triple wire remain excellent overall, brass guard with a very dark patina. No Scabbard. - Price is $ 450.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-35-2706
Model 1840 Cavalry - Maker marked with K & C for C. R. Kirschbaum & Company, the 35 1/2" blade has been lightly sharpen, minor small nicking, blade shows age & use. Good brass guard with original leather & wire, small chunk missing on the handle, shows honest wear & use, pommel is inspected with JM and stamped # 77. Scabbard shows its age with light pitting, minor rusting and some small denting. Nice period sword which was certainly among the initial weapons used by the confederate arm forces. - Price is $ 750.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-36
Model 1860 Cavalry Sword - The 35" blade is maker marked & dated with US CEW 1865, Mansfield & Lamb Forestdale RI. Blade has a couple fine nicks, was plated at some point with little loss, most near the tip. Leather grip & brass wire remain good showing honest age & use, pommel inspected with CEW. There is a number 24 stamped over the date and a 15 stamped in the pommel cap, rack numbers. Scabbard shows honest age, inspected but hard to decipher, looks to be JH . - Price is $ 800.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-37-1478
Model 1860 Cavalry Sword - Dated 1861, the 35" blade with 1 small nick, leather washer intact. Excellent leather grip & wire showing only honest age. There is no other markings on the sword or scabbard, no inspection stamps. Scabbard has several small dents, has been painted black many years back, possible for parade use. Nice early dated sword here. - Price is $ 900.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-38-2619
Model-1906 Cavalry Sword - More scarce than the civil war swords, fresh from the attic and never messed with. The 35" blade shows age, nick free, leather washer intact. Stamped US JC and dated AS Co 1906. All iron guard with original leather & wire showing age & use. Scabbard dent free, drag inspected with JC. Sword & scabbard with light rust, I applied a thin coat of oil after taking the photos. I would think this would clean up better, thats up to you. - Price is $ 500.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-39-2907
Model 1860 Staff Officers Sword - SCARCE untouched example here, 32" diamond style blade with French Maker Mark, FDB over helmet & sword, Francois Delacour & Backes, Paris Sword Maker. Sword tip missing a very small "minor" piece, looks to have been used as a pointer, not broken, has been dragged with rounded tip, possible in the dirt to draw maps, blade overall good condition showing age with light dark spotting, no etching typical of the French. Horn grip missing brass wire, wire looks to have been cut or was broken at some point, push button guard works fine, pommel, hand guard, blade a tad loose together with felt washer missing. Scabbard maker marked Horstmann Phila & N.Y. looks to be all brass, a magnet does not stick, very dark patina, small drag plain both sides, scabbard ring mounts the same both sides, both inside ring mounts show wear from soldier wearing on belt & use, scabbard body with light denting & small wave. All brass remains very dark from age & storage, no brasso polish needed. I point out all these very minor issues, there is nothing extreme or negative about this sword. Just about impossible to find these scarce swords. - Price is $ 1250.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-40-885
Model 1860 Cavalry Sword - The 35" blade is maker marked Mansfield & Lamb Forestdale RI & dated US JCW 1864. Blade shows age with light rust and fine nicks, more like a roughness. Leather grip missing the brass wire, leather washer intact. Scabbard good condition, most of the plated finish long gone, adds character, NJ stamped on drag, maybe for New Jersey. Sword overall has a nice look and will display just fine. - Price is $ 800.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-41-1319
Model 1860 Cavalry Sword - The sword blade is 35" long with nicking, nothing large or extreme, leather washer long gone, the reverse maker marked with Emerson & Silver, maker mark is weak and obverse marked with USJF1865. Leather grip and wire are excellent, just honest wear. The scabbard, dark from age has a many small dents and throat is missing. Still a Nice Example & Price - Price is $ 750.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-42
Model 1860 Cavalry Sword - The 35" blade with 4 very fine nicks, leather washer intact. Maker marked with a weak Emerson & Silver Trenton NJ, dated US JM 1865. Excellent original leather grip and brass wire, pommel inspected with JM. Scabbard shows signs of being cleaned, denting both sides. - Price is $ 800.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-43-2702
Model 1860 Cavalry Sword - The 35" blade maker marked with Made by Ames Chicopee Mass, dated US JF 1865. Original leather grip & wire remain in very good condition, leather washer intact. Brass guard has had the one branch removed, done possible during the war. Pommel inspected with JM, blade excellent overall with 2 fine nicks. Scabbard dent free, shows age with loss to finish. - Price is $ 750.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-44-2626
Model 1832 French Artillery Short Sword - Maker marked Klingenthal, 25" overall with a 19" double edge blade. Maker mark is weak, blade is rusty & has pitting from sitting in a barn. Nice relic sword. - Price is $ 485.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-45-2633
CS Brush Cutter - Blacksmith, confederate ? made large knife, I suspect used to chop brush. Recovered from a South Carolina Plantation, farm auction, wood handles sing Dixie. Overall 20 1/2" long with a 4 1/2" wood handle, handle has 2 small cracks, blade 1 1/2" wide. There was a pile of these that came from the auction, all different, I have 2 left, look at SW-9. - Price is $ 75.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-46
Model 1860 Cavalry Sword - The 35" sword blade is maker marked C. Roby Chelmsford Mass & dated US 1864 AGM. Blade overall good condition, shows spotting from age with several very small fine nicks that can be felt with your finger nail, one larger. Leather grip shows wear & use, some wood showing, leather washer intact. Pommel cap inspected with the letter M. Scabbard shows storage age, no denting, drag inspected with AGM. - Price is $ 800.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-47-2829
Model 1850 Foot Officers Sword - Field grade officers sword with scabbard. The 30 1/4" blade is marked with PDL, nick free, shows age with light pitting near tip. Partial washer remains, weak scroll design to include US & eagle. Good shark skin grip with wire, wire has a small 1" snag or pull which makes it a tad loose. Scabbard shows age with denting & sword nicks. Nice sword for the money. - Price is $ SOLD plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-48-2823
Model 1840 Heavy Cavalry Sword - Scarce Maker - The 36" blade remains nick free, maker marked P.S. Justice Philad. These were only made in 1861 & 1862 by this maker. Leather grip good showing age & use, brass wire missing. Leather washer intact, possible a replacement. Scabbard very good overall showing honest age, no denting. - Price is $ 800.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-49-2761
Model 1860 GAR Officers Sword - The 30" nick free blade is maker marked, J.H. Wilson Phila Pa. Blade scroll design to include US & Eagle. Leather grip & brass wire good overall showing honest age. Scabbard with brass mounts, dent free, shows age with minor loss of finish. - Price is $ SOLD plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-50-2962
Model 1860 GAR Officers Sword - The 30" blade is stamped with a scarce maker, J.A. Joel & Co New-York. Blade remains in very good condition with scroll design to include US & Eagle. Brass guard still retains some gold gilt. Leather grip & wire excellent showing honest age, blade washer missing. Scabbard overall very good, dent free, shows age with areas of light rust. - Price is $ 400.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-51-2705
Model 1860 Cavalry Sword - The 35" blade maker marked with Emerson & Silver Trenton N.J. weak, dated US ADK 1865. Blade has very fine nicking & light spotting, leather washer intact. Leather grip & wire good overall showing honest age & use. Pommel inspected with S & JM. No Scabbard. - Price is $ 450.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-52-2915
Model 1860 Cavalry Sword - Maker marked, Made by Ames MFG Co Chicopee Mass and dated US JF 1865. The 35" blade has age spotting and light nicking, leather washer intact. Original leather & wire, grip shows age with small amounts of leather missing. Brass overall with a very dark patina, pommel cap inspected with JF. Scabbard is dent free, shows age with light rust. Sword & scabbard overall good condition showing age & use, this one is fresh from the attic. - Price is $ 750.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-53-2584
M-1860 Naval Cutlass - Fresh from a New York attic, the 26" blade has rust and many nicks, never messed with. Blade is dated USN DR 1862, maker marked Ames MFG Co Chicopee Mass. Wood handle with leather, some missing, wire missing, almost always removed anyhow. Brass sheet cup shows age & use with lots of patina. No scabbard. Don't see them like this often,, just a cool relic. - Price is $ 450.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-54-2369
Model 1840 NCO Non-Commissioned Officers Sword - NCO sword & scabbard with the original leather shoulder belt seldom found for sale. Maker marked Emerson & Silver Trenton N.J. dated US DFM 1862, the 32" blade remains excellent. Brass guard inspected DFM. Metal scabbard overall very good, drag with light denting & inspected DFM, reverse screw hole worn & rounded. Leather shoulder belt remains excellent, shows age & light use. There is a Eagle breast plate instead of the NCO buckle, it has been on there for many many years. - Price is $ 1250.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-55-1532
SCARCE Model 1841 Naval Cutlass Sword - Sword overall 26 1/2" long with a 20 3/4" double edge blade. Blade shows age & use with some very fine nicks, most to the bottom edge. Maker marked & dated with US 1846 R & N.P. Ames Cabotville. Both sides of the quillon or tang inspected with RC & JL. Brass guard is stamped with rack number 15. Overall this sword is in excellent condition & never messed with. These swords in this condition are not commonly seen for sale and have become scarce to find. - Price is $ SOLD plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-56-2868
Model 1860 Cavalry Sword - Sword blade is 35" long with a couple very fine nicks that can be felt with your finger, maker marked Emerson & Silver Trenton, N.J. dated US DFM 1864. Brass guard very good, pommel stamped with JM, original leather & wire near excellent with one strain of wire missing with period repair. Guard stamped with "EM", most likly the owners initials, my opinion. Scabbard is a model 1840, overall very good, shows age with a light patina. - Price is $ SOLD plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-57-817
Model 1840 Musicians Sword - The 28 1/4" blade remains excellent, small amount of wear or roughness near tip, maker stamped & dated. Made by Ames MFG Co Chicopee Mass, dated, US CSL 1864, guard stamped with JH, drag inspected with TKL. Scabbard very good showing age & use, small bend to brass drag, couple worn areas to leather, no extreme damage or problems. Most of these Musician swords are always missing the scabbard, here your chance to acquire one with. - Price is $ 750.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-58-2150
Model 1860 Cavalry Sword - The 35" blade is dated US CEW 1864 & maker marked with Mansfield & Lamb Forestdale RI. Sword blade remains very good showing honest age, leather washer intact. Original leather grip & wire show honest use & wear, one strand of wire missing with old repair, hard to notice and does no harm, see photo. Pommel cap inspected with CEW. Scabbard shows age with light rust, most to drag, 2 very small dents & couple scuffs with loss of nickel plate in areas. Nice civil war dated sword for the money. - Price is $ 850.00 Item - SW-59-2405
Model 1840 Artillery Saber - The sword blade is 32 1/2" long, maker marked & dated with US/ADK/1864 & Ames MFG Chicopee Mass. Blade remains excellent overall with 3 or 4 VERY fine nicks, complete with leather washer. Original grip leather & wire excellent overall showing honest age & use. Scabbard remains in good condition, no denting, light rust, drag inspected ADK. Getting difficult to fine them like this, at this price,, as seen here. - Price is $ SOLD plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-60-2834